CORALIE KRAFT2026年10月14日Ashley St. Clair is sick of people asking her the same questions about Elon Musk. “People treat me like I’m some Elon psychoanalyst,” she said during a visit to The New York Times in September. “They want to know, ‘What’s it like to hang out with him?’ or they say, ‘Not many people have spent time with him one-on-one.’” She sighed. “It’s annoying and laborious.”阿什莉·圣克莱尔受够了人们总是问她关于埃隆·马斯克的同样问题。“人们把我当成什么埃隆的心理分析师似的，”她在9月造访《纽约时报》时说。“他们想知道，‘和他在一起是什么感觉？’或者说，‘没有多少人和他单独相处过。’”她叹了口气。“这很烦人，也很费力。”You can’t blame them for asking. St. Clair, a former conservative influencer, gave birth to one of Musk’s children in 2024. (At the time, she also had another child from a previous relationship.) This fall, she’s a significant figure in “Musk,” Alex Gibney’s nearly four-hour-long documentary about the world’s first trillionaire, and she has more pressing points. “This is about a deeper rot in our society, where we’ve equated capital with morality,” she said. “There’s a level of societal and individual trust that we give to people if they have money.”人们这么问也情有可原。圣克莱尔曾是保守派网红，2024年生下了马斯克的一个孩子。（当时，她还有个与前任所生的孩子。）今年秋天，在亚历克斯·吉布尼关于这位世界首位万亿富翁的近四小时纪录片《马斯克》中，她充当了重要人物，而她有更迫切需要表达的论点。“这关乎我们社会中更深层的腐烂，我们把资本等同于道德，”她说。“如果人们有钱，我们就会给予他们一定程度的社会和个人信任。”Musk did not respond to requests for comment. After TMZ reported that Ashley St. Clair rejected a $40 million N.D.A., Musk responded via X, stating, “She was never offered that and has a history of making false claims.” He also condemned Gibney’s documentary with another post on X reading, “Gibney just assembled a hit list of people who either have an axe to grind or don’t even know me.”马斯克没有回应置评请求。在TMZ报道阿什莉·圣克莱尔拒绝了一份4000万美元的保密协议后，马斯克通过X平台回应称：“她从未收到过这样的提议，而且她有提出虚假指控的历史。”他还在X平台的另一篇帖子中谴责吉布尼的纪录片，写道：“吉布尼只是拼凑了一份名单，上面的人要么是怀有私怨，要么甚至根本不认识我。”Gibney, the Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker, first met St. Clair in December 2025. “Beyond Musk’s baby obsession, Ashley had a front-row seat during the 2024 campaign and was able to tell me things I didn’t know about Musk’s motivations,” he said in an email. Below, St. Clair shares her side of the story.吉布尼是奥斯卡获奖纪录片导演，于2025年12月第一次见到圣克莱尔。“除了马斯克对生孩子的执念，阿什莉在2024年竞选期间身处第一线，能够向我透露许多我此前并不了解的关于马斯克动机的内幕，”他在一封电子邮件中写道。下面，圣克莱尔分享了她这一方的说法。These are edited excerpts from the conversation.以下是经过编辑的对话节选。Were you at all nervous about participating in the film?参与这部电影时你紧张吗？No. I was familiar with some of Alex’s documentary work, like “Going Clear.” I liked that he didn’t have any fear. He has a history of treating facts and narratives with respect.不紧张。我熟悉亚历克斯的一些纪录片作品，比如《拨开迷雾》(Going Clear)。我喜欢他的无所畏惧。他一贯尊重事实和叙事。You’ve seen the film. How did you feel watching it?你已经看过这部电影了。看的时候感觉如何？What was both validating and terrifying was the way the narratives harmonized. Me, Justine [Wilson, Musk’s first wife], Sam Harris [the New Atheist philosopher] and Geoffrey Hinton [the so-called Godfather of A.I.] — there are so many similarities in our experiences with Elon. I think when you’re able to take people who have never spoken to each other and harmonize a narrative, that is the truth.既让我感到被认可又让我感到恐惧的是，这些叙述竟然如此和谐地融合在一起。我、贾斯汀（贾斯汀·威尔逊，马斯克的第一任妻子）、萨姆·哈里斯（新无神论哲学家）和杰弗里·辛顿（所谓的人工智能教父）——我们在与埃隆的相处经历中有着太多的相似之处。我认为，如果你能让素未谋面的人在叙事上达成一致，那便是真相。“我会说感觉在情感上很亲密。我们每天都联系，”圣克莱尔在谈到她与马斯克的关系时说道。 Elinor Kry for The New York TimesWhat did your life look like when you met Musk in 2023?2023年你遇见马斯克时，你的生活是什么样的？I worked at a conservative news site, The Babylon Bee, and I was a single mom. I also had a public persona, primarily on Twitter, where I was repeating MAGA talking points. Elon followed me on Twitter and slid into my DMs.我在保守派新闻网站《巴比伦蜜蜂》工作，是个单亲妈妈。我也有一个公众形象，主要是在Twitter上，重复“让美国再次伟大”(MAGA)的伦敦。埃隆在Twitter上关注了我，给我发了私信。How did you feel when he followed you?他关注你的时候，你感觉如何？I don’t think people understand the number of eyeballs that were on everyone Elon interacted with at that time. I was getting “Congratulations!” texts from people in MAGA. Right away, there were people saying, “She’s going to be his next baby mama.” I was about to turn 24.我觉得人们并不了解当时与埃隆互动的人都会受到多少关注。我收到MAGA人士发来的“恭喜！”短信。立刻有人说，“她要成为他下一个孩子的妈妈了。”我当时快24岁了。And when did you meet in person for the first time?你们第一次见面是什么时候？We’d been DMing on Twitter, and then during an interview for the Bee, he asked, “Feel like going to Providence, R.I.?” Within an hour, I was on his plane. In Providence, we shared a hotel room, and he fell asleep listening to a podcast about Kublai Khan. It was all very surreal.我们一直在Twitter上私信，然后在为《巴比伦蜜蜂》做采访时，他问：“想去罗德岛的普罗维登斯吗？”不到一小时，我就上了他的飞机。在普罗维登斯，我们合住一间酒店房间，他听着关于忽必烈的播客睡着了。这一切都显得非常超现实。Did it feel like a romantic relationship?感觉像恋爱关系吗？I would say it felt emotionally intimate. We were in contact every day. But also I was never like, “I’m the chosen one.” At the time, he was this savior of free speech, and I was very wrapped up in all of that. I’d say there was a bit of idolization going on, too.我会说感觉在情感上很亲密。我们每天都联系。但我也从未觉得，“我是被选中的那个。”当时，他被视为言论自由的救世主，我深深沉浸在其中。我觉得当时多少也有点把他偶像化了。When did you start talking about having a child together?你们什么时候开始谈论要生孩子的？In January 2024, we went on vacation to St. Bart’s, and he said, “You should have 10 kids! Let’s have a kid. My only limited resource is time.”2024年1月，我们去圣巴茨度假，他说：“你应该生10个孩子！我们生一个吧。我唯一有限的资源就是时间。”What did that mean to you?这对你意味着什么？I wanted more children, so it meant that I would always be able to take care of my kids financially. Also, within MAGA, it was seen as a stain on your character to be a single mom. So to have this bastion of the right who is very validating of that choice — that meant so much to me.我想要更多孩子，所以这意味着我在经济上可以一直养活我的孩子们。此外，在MAGA阵营里，做单亲妈妈被视为品格上的污点。因此，能得到这位极力肯定这种选择的右翼堡垒人物的支持——这对我来说意义重大。Did you have any hesitations?你有过犹豫吗？Not until I was pregnant and I watched the custody battle between Elon and Grimes [who share three children]. It made me think, “I have to protect myself.”直到我怀孕，看到埃隆和格莱姆斯（他们共有三个孩子）的监护权争夺战，我才开始犹豫。这让我意识到，“我必须保护自己。”When did you receive the N.D.A.?你是在什么时候收到保密协议的？I was two months postpartum. Jared Birchall, Elon’s money manager and henchman, sent the document in a disappearing message on Signal. We didn’t have a formal financial agreement, so at that moment, getting the N.D.A. felt like, “If you would like any kind of support, sign this.”我产后两个月。埃隆的财物经理兼得力助手贾里德·伯查尔通过Signal应用的一条阅后即焚消息发来文件。我们当时并没有签署正式的财务协议，所以在那一刻，收到保密协议的感觉就像是：“如果你想要任何形式的支持，就签了这份协议。”I see. They were saying, “If you want support, sign this.” What were the terms of the N.D.A.?我明白了。他们是在说：“如果你想要支持，就签了这份协议。”那么保密协议的条款是什么？I couldn’t speak about Elon or anything related to our relationship for eternity, and those terms would also apply to my heirs. I could tell our child who his father is, but I couldn’t tell my other child, or anyone else. He offered $15 million lump sum, and then $100,000 a month for 21 years.我永远不能谈论埃隆或任何与我们关系有关的事情，这些条款也适用于我的继承人。我可以告诉我们的孩子他的父亲是谁，但我不能告诉我的另一个孩子或者任何其他人。他开出了1500万美元的一次性付款，外加21年内每月10万美元的款项。But you decided not to sign.但你决定不签。For me, it was more a moral question than a legal one. I told Jared I couldn’t sign it, and he responded with, “Why? Sounds like you want to use your speech as a weapon.” I told him my children’s dignity is not a commodity.对我来说，这更像是一个道德问题，而不是法律问题。我告诉贾里德我不能签，他回应说：“为什么？听起来你想把你的言论当作武器。”我告诉他，我孩子的尊严不是商品。Did Musk ever talk to you about the N.D.A.?马斯克曾和你谈过保密协议吗？No.没有。And now you’re a significant voice in Gibney’s documentary.现在你是吉布尼纪录片中的一个重要发声者。People need to understand that part of the reason I’m featured prominently in the documentary is that other people cannot speak. I don’t think we should lose sight of that. I don’t want to have to speak publicly. I don’t want to be doing this interview right now. But there is a web of N.D.A.s. I feel a moral obligation to talk about my experience.人们需要理解，我在纪录片中如此突出，部分原因是其他人不能发声。我认为我们不应忽视这一点。我本不想公开发声，也不想此刻接受这次采访。但有一个保密协议构成的网络。我觉得有道德义务谈论我的经历。Let’s talk about your transition away from MAGA. When did that start?让我们谈谈你远离MAGA的转变。那是什么时候开始的？It happened slowly and then all at once. There were moments where I wasn’t OK with the things I was witnessing — the misogyny, the racism — but I was a coward.这个过程先是缓慢发生，然后突然一下子就发生了。有些时刻，我对目睹的事情感到不安——厌女、种族主义——但我当时是个懦夫。What would you say to people who think, “She’s only turning left because the right rejected her”?对于认为“她之所以转向左翼，只是因为右翼抛弃了她”的人，你会说什么？I’m not dumb. I was aware what would happen when I came out against Elon, and I was OK with it. There’s a video from before I was pregnant where I say I’m not a conservative. So there were already moments where you can see these breaks from the conservative establishment.我并不傻。我知道一旦我公开反对埃隆会发生什么，我也接受。有一个我怀孕前的视频，我在里面说我不是保守派。所以其实早就有迹象表明，我与保守派主流阵营之间已经出现了裂痕。You posted a lot of transphobic, racist and misogynistic commentary. Did other people pay the price for your public image?你发布过很多跨性别恐惧、种族主义和厌女的评论。是否有人因你的公众形象而付出了代价？I think about that all the time. Recently I got a notification about hospitals ending gender-affirming care. When I read that, I felt immensely remorseful. I know that probably would’ve happened without me, but I still feel guilt for my role.我一直在想这件事。最近我收到一条通知，说有医院停止提供性别肯定治疗。读到那个时，我感到极度悔恨。我知道即使没有我，这种事也可能发生，但我仍然对自己扮演的角色感到内疚。How do you see your role today?你现在如何看待自己的角色？My only job after years of propaganda and dishonesty and being involved in MAGA for almost a decade is to be honest and set an example for my kids. My job is not to set a new narrative about myself. My only job is to be held accountable.在经历了多年宣传和不诚实、参与MAGA近十年之后，我唯一的工作就是诚实，并为我的孩子们树立榜样。我的工作不是为自己设定新的叙事。我唯一的人物就是承担责任。Coralie Kraft是《纽约时报杂志》的撰稿人。翻译：晋其角点击查看本文英文版。