Keralam Chief Minister VD Satheesan on why empathy matters in governance, his vision for the state, the INDIA bloc and the challenges before Congress. He was in conversation with The Indian Express National Opinion Editor Vandita Mishra and Deputy Editor Liz MathewNo. People are expecting more from us because before the election, we kept our communication lines open with them. We criticised and exposed the last government and people have naturally asked for an alternative. We prepared by conducting health and education conclaves, interacting with experts and focusing on Kerala’s future. Now the people are expecting more from our side. That is the only pressure. The party, cabinet, MLAs are supporting UDF (Congress-led United Democratic Front). Our UDF is a model coalition for the country. There are 10 parties, but we act like a single party. We want to deliver on our promises. We are working hard for that. It was an evening of conversations and ideas at the Express Adda, held in New DelhiLiz Mathew: While you were in the Opposition, you spoke about every leader having a vision for the future of the state. Now that you have completed almost six months as the CM, what is the picture of Kerala you want after five years of your term?We have a long-term target for Kerala. We studied our disadvantages — high population density, scarce land and strict regulations like the Forest Act and Coastal Regulation Zone. Then we focused on our advantages — two international sea ports, a container terminal, 18 mini ports, and a 600km coastline — to transform Kerala into a port city.Studying demographic shifts, Kerala’s youth share is shrinking while senior numbers grow. We became the first state to create a department for senior citizens. In the first cabinet we took that decision, introducing a bill to guarantee rights to senior citizens. A civilised society is measured by how it treats its elderly, and we aim to make Kerala the most civilised society in this aspect within five years.This is not just a welfare project; this is the silver economy. We want to make senior citizens more active, integrating them with youngsters. For example, when youngsters begin startups, we provide an experienced techno mentor who is a senior. If somebody is weak in management or marketing, we provide a management mentor.We have Kudumbashree women units across the state. We want to make them economically self-reliant. We have four international airports in Kerala and want to make it an aviation hub. We are establishing a global convention centre in Cochin, an aviation institute, pilot training, MRO, cargo facilities, and tourism upgrades.Vandita Mishra: Many of these things will take time but do you have to contend with an impatience to make a break from the past? Your critics call you ‘Pinarayi in khadi’, just as they called Pinarayi ‘Modi in a mundu’.Anybody can create such things. Now, on social media, you can damage anyone or whitewash a culprit. People make mistakes. I will also make them but I will correct them, too. But criticising everyday when we are talking about serious things is not good.Story continues below this adLiz Mathew: Your image is diametrically opposite to that of Pinarayi Vijayan. He was known as a doer who could bulldoze many things. Do you think your image as a nice person is a baggage for you?Decades ago, I thought whatever I believed was right. Now after interacting with many people, I know we can correct many things. There should be a final result after interactions. Now we are holding interactions with experts. We have knowledge partners in all projects, and are discussing with seniors, experienced persons, and officers.I have given confidence to all officers that if they are doing something in good faith, they will be protected. There may be procedural irregularity or media attack, but I will protect them. That is the confidence we are giving officers.Vandita Mishra: You talk of Kerala as an investment hub. But you are caught in a situation where the state’s revenue raising capabilities are narrowing while committed expenditures, including social sector spending which makes the Kerala model so progressive, remain high. You have persisting deficits and rising debt. Do you think the state needs a new contract with the Centre, because the tax devolution share has been falling?After coming to power, we made a detailed study on the fiscal situation with experts and placed a white paper on the table of the legislature. Our committed expenditure is 80 per cent of revenue—salary, pension, interest—and debt is more than 5 lakh crore. We are facing a fiscal crisis.In the first budget, there was pressure on me to increase taxes, but I did not do that. I don’t think an increase in tax is the solution. To stimulate the economy, first, the government has to spend.Story continues below this adFor example, during Onam, we gave money to the poor and lower middle class — their pension, arrears — nearly Rs 4,000 crore. When asked why we pushed this amount, I said it creates demand in the market. During the festival, people came to the market, the market was stimulated, wholesale and retail business increased, and we got the largest GST share last month since GST was introduced in Kerala. We need more investments to stimulate the economy, and we hope the situation will improve.Vandita Mishra: Kerala shares its predicament with other southern states — aging population, fiscal stress, committed social expenditures. Recently, Chandrababu Naidu, Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, took an initiative for a “southern alliance”. He cited river interlinking but the initiative can be read as an attempt to improve these states’ bargaining position with the Centre.That’s a very good idea — not for bargaining with the Centre, but for many other things coordination between southern governments and southern chief ministers will be good. In the GST Council also we can place many things, and on devolution of taxes we can raise many things. For example, in the 10th Finance Commission we got 3.5 per cent, and the last Finance Commission recommended only 2.32 per cent. From 10th to 16th Finance Commission, our devolution share went down.And another thing is that from shifting from the Planning Commission to NITI Aayog, they shifted from planning to projects. Now in all departments there are projects and we have to avail the projects. When checked, we had claimed only 20 to 25 per cent. Now the various departments are preparing detailed project reports according to the guidelines of the central projects with our knowledge partners.Liz Mathew: There is a general impression that you as Chief Minister wanted to take so many initiatives but there have been some obstacles, some internal pressure groups. Do you think that a powerful pressure group from within is creating obstacles for you?No, no, I don’t think so. For the projects and for the governance side I don’t have any pressure from our party or from our coalition. Because we are preparing all the projects only after discussion with cabinet ministers and senior leaders, taking unanimous decisions in the cabinet and moving ahead. They are all confident that we can do a lot of things. Nobody is putting pressure on us regarding governance.Story continues below this adVandita Mishra: Student protests have emerged in many parts of the country, demanding greater accountability in the education system and the Election Commission’s conduct of the Special Intensive Revision of electoral rolls. In Kerala, police filed FIRs against CJP protesters in the protests’ first round. Even as Congress supports the CJP cause in Delhi, your police was rounding up protesters in Kerala. How do you explain that? Between the Left and Congress, an older contradiction has resurfaced — you face off in the state while cooperating in Delhi.The agitations of the students and youngsters stem from real worries — unemployment is a major thing and failures in the education system are real. You know that the nature of jobs has been changing across the world because of new futuristic technologies. We have declared a global job watch in my budget and appointed experts in 12 sectors to watch what is happening to jobs in their sector. They will report to the government, and we will restructure the curriculum. We have to start new academic programmes; otherwise we will be in trouble.In India, we need to take steps for employment generation, the unemployment rate is going up, and there is dwindling trust in the present education system. Students are worried about exams and education, making this protest an organic response. Through social media messages, students connect and assemble.In history, student agitations have led to upheavals — even the French Revolution began with youngsters discussing the system in coffee houses. That is happening in India.Story continues below this adVandita Mishra: So why did your police file FIRs against protesters?Police filed FIRs when there were roadblocks. Then we asked them to quash all the FIRs.Vandita Mishra: And the Congress-Left joining hands for the protest?They are part of the INDIA front. They are agitating together for a cause. It’s quite natural and organic and Rahul Gandhi is leading the agitation.Vandita Mishra: And he is giving more importance to AISA’s Neha Bora than to NSUI or Youth Congress?This is not a single-party agitation. When a leader is leading that agitation, he has to accommodate everybody—NSUI, Youth Congress, and coalition partners. When photos were taken with allies, that is normal in broad coalitions.Vandita Mishra: How do you look at the government’s effort to paint the protests as part of a foreign conspiracy—the foreign hand?Since my college days, governments have blamed a ‘foreign hand’ for protests. What foreign hand? This is an organic agitation, a natural one. You have to interact with Gen Z. They are depressed and worried. They don’t have hope. We have to give them hope about the future regarding higher education and employment opportunities, which we are doing in Kerala.Story continues below this adLiz Mathew: Looking at 2029, people say a coalition era is coming up. What do you think about Congress’s ability to stitch coalitions, given criticism from allies, compared to the BJP’s record in keeping coalitions intact?Coalition is a reality. There is an anti-incumbency against the existing government. Our job is to translate this anti-incumbency to votes. For that, coalition will play a major role. This is an opportunity to rally all the coalition parties. Now, all are rallying behind Rahul Gandhi.Liz Mathew: So do you justify dumping a coalition partner post-election and joining hands with another one just for power?No, Mr Stalin himself agreed for the coalition from the other side. Otherwise they were not able to form the government and there would have been presidential rule. This happens everywhere; only after election do coalitions form in many places.Vandita Mishra: There are still two-and-a-half years to go for the next Parliamentary election. Till then, state leaders have different models for dealing with the Modi government —Revanth Reddy calls Modi ‘elder brother’, while Omar Abdullah takes a non-confrontational stance. What is your approach going to be?I have not started with a fight against the Central government. We have notdeclared war. On the ideological side, we will fight against the BJP and the Sangh Parivar with no compromise. But government to government, cooperative federalism is here under constitutional provisions. We will try to get our due share and bring major projects by meeting the Prime Minister and concerned ministers.Story continues below this adLiz Mathew: You are very clear about your stand on secularism, but in the present scenario, do you think secularism is becoming a baggage for Congress? In the state, you’ve been accused of coming under pressure from the Muslim League, a key partner in your government.Nobody, no party is putting pressure on me. This is an old story. They are agreeing with our decisions, and we are taking decisions unitedly. In elections, we took an adamant secular stand with no compromise. Even when the majority community leader was spreading hate campaigns at the peak hour, I said no, if you are talking about this type of communalism we will never compromise. As for the Indian Union Muslim League, this is not the 1940s’ Muslim League. The Muslim League takes a secular approach, preventing extreme outfits from occupying that space. Muslim League candidates received widespread Hindu and Christian support. Kerala is secular. In my constituency, where the majority community has 52 per cent votes, they voted for me because they are secular. Our election results in Kerala stand as a model for the nation. Our state is secular.Vandita Mishra: We are talking about secularism, and I want to bring you to socialism. A few months ago, you declared that you are a Nehruvian Socialist. That’s a courageous thing to say when Nehru has almost been made a swear word. What did you mean when you said you are a Nehruvian socialist, and can we apply that test to your budget proposals?Yes, this is a balance between development and welfare. If we are losing money and the fiscal situation is going bad, we won’t be able to do welfare activities. So we want to fill the exchequer. What was the priority of Panditji after getting freedom? To give food to all the people in India — that was in the first five-year plan.Planning considers regional balance and backwardness, whereas shifting from planning to projects lacks regional balance. Where we implement development projects, the living standard of people living there must increase — it is not about constructing multi-storied buildings while evicting people to slums. Our approach is different. We are an enivromentally friendly government — no compromise with nature. In our first cabinet, we took a decision for free travel for women on buses. That is not a freebie; it is respect of the state government to women coming from suburbs and rural areas to work in cities for 2,000 or 3,000 rupees. Through savings initiatives like the Pinky fund, they build self-reliance while stimulating the market.Liz Mathew: You always come up as a very sensitive and a bit emotional person. I have seen your eyes moist when you talk about characters or books. How does that sensitive VD Satheesan persona fit into the Chief Minister role?I’m an ordinary person; when I see something touching, I may cry or laugh. These are human things. If I don’t have any emotional element in my thinking, in my mind, in my heart, governance becomes purely mechanical —police, cars, salutes. All rulers should be emotional. Emotionally, they have to observe what is happening around them and have the determination to solve the issues. For senior citizens, we assured that nobody will be alone; the government will be with them. A volunteer corps across panchayats gathers data on elderly care needs to ensure basic welfare and palliative support. If there is no emotional element, how can I do that?Story continues below this adVandita Mishra: You’re known to be a voracious reader. But in your state, despite high literacy rates and a literary tradition, the reading habit in the young is increasingly threatened. What steps can the government take to encourage a reading culture among the young?There is a story that reading is dying, but I’m not saying that —good books are coming up and the reading community in Kerala is growing. We are planning to start something as part of the curriculum in schools: the first thing is to read two or three newspapers every day. We also promote and congratulate new young writers. The reading community is growing in Kerala.Liz Mathew: In your speeches, you cited authors from Alvin Toffler to Yuval Noah Harari. How much do these books, and what you are reading currently, help you as Chief Minister?We learn many things from books. Recently I read Ameer Shahul’s The Silent Syndicate. It shows how international syndicates inflate medical costs and how generic medicine production drastically lowers prices. Atul Gawande’s Being Mortal instigated me for the care of senior citizens. Lisa Mosconi’s The Menopause Brain increased my respect for women. Reading Amitav Ghosh’s The Nutmeg’s Curse inspired an international maritime museum in our budget, reflecting Kerala’s ancient trade relations via Muziris port. From books we get updated information across many subjects.Vandita Mishra: Reports say the government may bring out the delimitation bill again in Parliament. What is your position on it?I am not against delimitation; delimitation is a constitutional procedure. But why are they increasing the number of seats across the country in a way that creates discrimination against certain states? We are opposing the increasing of seats without proper methodology. It has to be examined and scrutinised.