Rashtriya Lok Morcha leader Upendra Kushwaha on why the Opposition’s plank of electoral roll revision had lost steam, what Rahul Gandhi’s yatra in Bihar could do to his image, the need for a caste census and why BJP has an edge in the Assembly polls. The session was moderated by Senior Assistant Editor Santosh SinghSantosh Singh: How do you view your political career and what issues do you think will be important in the forthcoming Bihar Assembly elections?I started my political journey as a student under the tutelage of jananayak Karpoori Thakurji. His area of work was Vaishali district, next to Samastipur, where my home is. He had a very good relationship with my father, a simple farmer who was also a social activist. My father would campaign with the candidates of Karpoori Thakurji’s party at that time and work for them. I would make people aware of the party symbol and gather them on voting day. This whetted my curiosity about Karpoori Thakurji and introduced me to the idea of social justice. If someone in the village fell ill, I would accompany them for treatment whether it was to a nearby hospital or Patna or somewhere else.Later, having completed my post-graduate studies, I joined Thakurji’s party, Lok Dal. It was at the same time that I met Nitish Kumarji (now Bihar CM). After Thakurji’s death, I began working with Nitishji. I was with him when he co-founded the Samata Party against the misrule and terror of Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD) across Bihar. Then, when he assumed power, some issues led to my separation from Nitishji.Generally, after struggling for 12-14 years to get power, people usually want to benefit from it and don’t want to part with it. But I always had a rebellious nature. So, I formed my own party, then went with Nitishji again. He gave me a Rajya Sabha membership. But when I found that the party’s internal dynamic was not favourable for me to work, I resigned from the Rajya Sabha. I went back to the grassroots and formed my own party (Rashtriya Lok Morcha). I became its candidate as an ally of the BJP-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) from Karakat Lok Sabha constituency. I could not win the elections due to local factors but now I am a Rajya Sabha member.The atmosphere in Bihar is in favour of the NDA. The Opposition is trying various ways to assume power by making the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls an issue. But this issue did not have an impact on people as the yatra by Congress leader Rahul Gandhiji started from zero and ended at zero. It is very clear now that if some names have been deleted from the rolls, there are reasons for it. People have also been given the opportunity to raise objections. So the Election Commission is taking action based on their claims. The Election Commission, in between, asked Opposition leaders like Rahulji and Tejashwiji (Rashtriya Janata Dal-RJD) to provide an affidavit for whatever they were claiming. They were not ready for that either. People have also gone to court. In court too, they could have properly presented their case and resolved any perceived irregularities. But perhaps they didn’t trust the court. So, they undertook a yatra, which didn’t connect with common people.Santosh Singh: But the Congress is claiming that it had lodged 89 lakh complaints, which the Election Commission did not register because they were not in the required format. Identity cards, ration cards, EPICs were not accepted. Do you think that the timing of SIR was not correct, given the inconvenience it caused, and it could have been done in a non-election year?Story continues below this adEven if there were time constraints for the exercise to be completed before the elections, rejecting the work of the Election Commission is not appropriate. Whatever the Election Commission has done is its Constitutional responsibility. I would say that the Opposition submitted lakhs of objections deliberately using a wrong format, knowing well that the poll panel would reject them and they would have an agenda to go to the people with. “Look, the Election Commission is not listening to us,” would be their slogan. I often give the example that if someone doesn’t want to contest an election but wants to show the public that they want to, they fill out the nomination form in such a way that their nomination eventually gets cancelled. The Opposition’s objective is to just create a ruckus.ON TICKETS FOR ALLIES | Speaking in public to create pressure or to send a message to one’s own people is one thing, but everything will happen in due course. THERE are just two teams on the field right now: NDA and the MahagathbandhanDeeptiman Tiwary: The NDA is going into this election as a united front but is riddled with contradictions. You have had a strained relationship with Nitish Kumar in the past. The LJP (Lok Janshakti Party) had fielded candidates against him. Are you facing any coordination issues within the NDA?No, no, not at all. If there was a dispute or difference of opinion among the alliance parties or their leaders on some matter years ago, it happened due to the circumstances of that time. In the current situation, there is no carryover of old issues. If you look at the other alliance too, there was a time when Congress leader Sonia Gandhi did not even give RJD leader Laluji a chance to become a minister. Now he is in an alliance with her. So, a disagreement or difference of opinion with someone once, be it in a family or a party alliance, doesn’t last forever.Deeptiman Tiwary: In Bihar, caste equations are very important for elections. In the last Lok Sabha elections, the RJD gave away many tickets to representatives from the Kushwaha community to attract non-Yadav OBCs. This time, too, there are indications that the Mahagathbandhan will focus heavily on non-Yadav OBCs. Is the NDA concerned about this strategy?Story continues below this adThere are two parts to this question. One, you said that caste equations are important in the Bihar elections. But they matter in other states too. Attributing this only to Bihar often makes me wonder if some people are intentionally or unintentionally defaming the state.Second, the RJD has certainly achieved some success with their strategy and will try it out again. But they won’t succeed because they are also using the word “non-Yadav OBC.” There must be some issue with Yadavs, that’s why there’s talk of non-Yadav OBCs. Non-Yadav OBCs are very peace-loving people and won’t put up with disputes that the RJD tends to fuel. The NDA is paying full attention to their strategy and will counter it 100 per cent. We will leverage our past experience from the Lok Sabha elections to create a better strategy for the Assembly elections so that they don’t gain any advantage. The NDA will remain strong.Jatin Anand: How big a factor is Chirag Paswan, who wants to contest in more Assembly seats this time? How do you view smaller parties like Aam Aadmi Party and Jan Suraaj Party?Naturally, Chiragji is trying to carry forward the legacy of Ram Vilas Paswanji. He is part of the NDA alliance and he is also a minister at the Centre. As far as him wanting more seats is concerned, every party wants to get as many seats as possible in the alliance. Wanting is one thing. But when talks happen, considering the practical situation, everyone has to compromise a little bit. Speaking to create pressure or to send a message to one’s own people is one thing but everything will happen in due course. There will be no problem. Chiragji and people from other parties will be adjusted. There are just two teams on the field right now: NDA and the Mahagathbandhan. The rest of the teams you are naming are not on the field right now.Story continues below this adLalmani Verma: Regarding SIR, almost 65 lakh voters have been deleted. In the Assembly elections, results in most seats change with a margin of 5,000 to 10,000 votes. So, have you or the NDA received any feedback yet about who these 65 lakh deleted votes belonged to?No. You can see that deletions are happening when a person’s name is on the voters’ list in two places, in Bihar and Delhi. Such people exist on both sides. In the initial phase, the apprehension was that Mahagathbandhan votes would be targeted and deleted in some areas. But the truth that has come out now shows that this is not the case. The largest number of deletions in the published draft was from Patna district, which is a stronghold of the NDA. More names were cut from Patna than from the Purvanchal districts. So, the exercise does not appear to be targeted.Asad Rehman: Although you said that Rahul Gandhi’s allegations will not have much impact on the election, how do you view his vote theft charge regarding the 2024 election?Their allegation is absolutely false. The Election Commission repeatedly asked them to submit an affidavit, they didn’t. I had also said that if indeed certain people had been targeted and their names removed, they should be presented before the media and should register cases. Nothing happened because they don’t exist. Their (the Opposition’s) only aim is to create a ruckus.ON SIR AS POLL PLANK | The atmosphere in Bihar is in favour of the NDA. The Opposition is trying various ways to assume power by making the SIR an ELECTORAL issue. But IT did not have an impact on peopleStory continues below this adHowever, I agree is that this yatra has certainly improved Rahul Gandhi’s image among people. Even if the issues he raised are not real, he is working hard and taking to the road. A positive image has certainly been created. But will he gain any benefit in this Assembly election? Absolutely not.Himanshu Harsh: You have supported the argument that delimitation should be based on population. But leaders of southern parties fear they will suffer in terms of representation because effective family planning has meant that their population has not increased as much as in the northern states. Your comments?There’s no substance in what the people of the South are saying. Their population decreased due to family planning. Since the census began in the country in 1881, their population continuously increased before independence. In Bihar or the neighbouring Hindi-belt states, the population didn’t increase because the British exploited us the most. We fell far behind in education gradually. In contrast, they advanced in education and with more development, they understood the importance of controlling population growth. Our people have not yet properly understood its importance. Even now, people in villages do not understand family planning and believe children to be the gift of God.The population down South started decreasing gradually 20 years after independence. Our population did not increase until a little before independence. Later, when delimitation happened based on population figures – as per the 1951, 1961, and 1971 census — you will see that until ’61, the population growth rate in those states was higher and ours was lower. At that time, there was no objection to delimitation. Now, when our population has started growing, they are saying that delimitation should not happen.Story continues below this adSantosh Singh: Do you think Nishant (Nitish Kumar ’s son) should enter politics now? Will that ensure the longevity of the Janata Dal-United?How can I make a proposal about anyone? It’s his decision. Nitish Kumar should continue to be Chief Minister now and in the future. But he should definitely consider the party leadership issue and take a decision. This is what I have said. In the NDA, it is unanimously decided in every way that Nitish Kumarji will be the next Chief Minister again.Manoj C G: There’s a new player, Prashant Kishor. How much impact will he have?I only see two teams on the field. Whatever you ask, I will comment only on those teams. What comment can I make on a team that isn’t on the field?Story continues below this adManoj C G: Do you think there should be a Common Minimum Programme (CMP) in Bihar among the allies in the NDA?The NDA has been in Bihar for quite some time and everybody is working together. When the caste census issue came up, a delegation, under the leadership of Nitish Kumar, including BJP members, told the Prime Minister to conduct it. Ultimately the BJP government at the Centre took a decision (the government approved the inclusion of caste enumeration in the next population census on April 30, 2025). So the CMP, whether declared or undeclared, is already ongoing. There is no new formation of the NDA that requires laying out a new agenda again.Vandita Mishra: But in the old NDA, there used to be coordination mechanisms and a coordination charter. In the current NDA, there is one BJP, which deals separately with all its allies. It doesn’t create any common coordination mechanism or programme. Don’t you think this is a backward step for coalition politics? This is not moving forward.In the context of Bihar, everyone is sitting together and taking decisions. There is no lack of coordination in Bihar. Had they behaved that way, Upendra Kushwaha would not be a Rajya Sabha member.On DELETIONS IN THE VOTERS’ LIST | The apprehension was that Mahagathbandhan votes would be targeted and deleted in some areas. this is not the case. The largest number of deletions in the published draft was from Patna district, which is a stronghold of the NDAStory continues below this adVandita Mishra: You are not talking about Prashant Kishor. While the BJP is now talking about a caste census, he is saying, “Don’t look at caste. Look at whether your children are getting education, whether you are getting a job or a house.” How do you see the caste card play out in this election?A caste census is 100 per cent necessary and it will happen. Aren’t there caste-based differences in society? Even today, if you go to a Dalit settlement, you will know without being told who belongs to a Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribe. You will know without being told who the EBCs (extremely backward classes) are.When this situation exists, does it need to be fixed or not? And if it needs to be fixed, should there be some programme or not? If there’s a ditch on the road and you want to level it, don’t you need to measure how deep that ditch is? The caste census is about measuring such a ditch in society. Based on that data, both the Centre and state governments will formulate schemes.This data is needed, and when the government acts and makes schemes later, we will be able to remove the inequality in society that we are talking about. So, overall, this caste census is ultimately to eliminate casteism, not to promote it. When a person is sick, and if surgery is needed to treat the illness, there will be pain during the surgery. If we just say, ‘No, the doctor is not good. This is causing a lot of pain,’ how else can the illness be treated? So, those who say that the caste census will increase casteism are absolutely wrong. It will gradually reduce casteism.Whether BJP does it or anyone else, every party in Bihar is supporting it. Is any party in the country opposing it? Be it the Congress or any other party, nobody is opposing it. All parties are collectively supporting it.