US low-cost, unmanned combat attack system (Lucas) drones in November 2025. US Central CommandAs Pete Hegseth, the Fox News host turned Donald Trump’s defense secretary, stood on the front lawn of the Pentagon to record a promotional video in July 2025, a drone hovered above him. Hegseth said that America’s adversaries had “produced millions of cheap drones” and it was time for the US to catch up. The Trump administration, he added, would arm combat units with “a variety of low-cost American-crafted drones” as part of a plan to secure US “drone dominance”. A few days later, Hegseth toured a display of 18 American-made protype drones. One of those on display was a Low-Cost Uncrewed Combat Attack System (Lucas) drone. By December, a squadron of these kamikaze drones was already in the Middle East. These Lucas drones may have been made in America, but they are a reverse-engineered copy of the kamikaze Iranian drone called a Shahed. Now, the US military has deployed them to attack Iran. In this episode of The Conversation Weekly podcast, we speak to Arun Dawson, a PhD researcher at King’s College London, about how the Iranians developed the Shahed drones, why the US decided to copy them, and what role these low-cost drones might play in the future of warfare. “Each of these drones costs US$35,000 (£26,000),” says Dawson, compared with US$3.6 million for each Tomahawk cruise missile. “With an American style defence budget, you can buy enough of them that you completely saturate the capabilities of an adversary to respond."Once you’ve achieved that,” he explains, “you can then send in your high-expense equipment to do the dirty job of delivering pretty large, decisive payloads on particular targets. That’s what the American military is beginning to explore and pivot towards.”Listen to the interview with Arun Dawson on The Conversation Weekly podcast and read an article he wrote for The Conversation. This episode was written and produced by Mend Mariwany and Gemma Ware. Mixing by Eleanor Brezzi and theme music by Neeta Sarl.Newsclips in this episode from The WallStreet Journal, New York Post, 10 News and CBS News.Listen to The Conversation Weekly via any of the apps listed above, download it directly via our RSS feed or find out how else to listen here. A transcript of this episode is available via the Apple Podcasts or Spotify apps.Arun Dawson is affiliated with the Royal United Services Institute.