Sachin Pilot, Congress leader and former Deputy Chief Minister of Rajasthan, on his role as senior observer for the upcoming Kerala elections, issues with US-India trade deal and how MGNREGA has been significantly diluted. The conversation was moderated by Liz Mathew, Deputy Editor, The Indian ExpressLiz Mathew: After 2024, the Congress has won 99 seats and lost Delhi and Bihar besides facing a series of debacles over the past two years. With another crucial round of elections approaching, what is your party’s expectation? What is the plan for Kerala?Like every election this is an important election for the Congress Party. Yes, we did not win the elections in Delhi and Bihar recently. The vote share difference was absolutely minimal. But these elections are important because the southern states form a large chunk of the India Alliance. The recent local body elections in Kerala (where Congress-led UDF won) have indicated which way the people of Kerala are thinking. It was big for the Congress. So I believe the elections are important. The Congress Party is fully geared up for these polls. We have alliance partners and the INDIA Alliance, overall, will be able to win most of the elections taking place in April.Liz Mathew: A recent key issue in the national political scenario is the US-India trade deal. You had criticised it, calling it “compromised” and something that “mortgaged India’s interest and sovereignty”. Why do you think the government has compromised with the interests of India and its sovereignty?First of all, it’s a deal, it’s not an agreement. What happened with the European Union did not create much furore because it was a consideration that both sides were able to present. Here, there have been many governments in this country — even non-Congress governments led by Atal Bihari Vajpayee, HD Deve Gowda, and Inder Kumar Gujral — but no government has ever opened up access to India at a zero per cent tariff while we are paying 18 per cent. The interests of the farming community have always been protected. Mainly because we simply cannot compete with the billions and trillions of dollars in subsidies that the US and European farmers receive. That was a red line, which was never crossed. Unfortunately, now we have given full access at a higher tariff. Let’s not forget that we were earlier paying a three per cent tariff, which became 50 per cent, and now it is 18 per cent.What has India actually got? We have agreed to buy $500 billion worth of American goods. In India, cotton farmers and the textile industry are extremely vulnerable because margins are so thin. The US deal is essentially a mandate on the Indian government, telling us what we can and cannot do. This economic security has always been treated as sacrosanct, regardless of which government has been in power in Delhi. For the first time, India is being told where it can and cannot purchase oil and gas. That is unacceptable. The Americans did not impose such conditions on China. The concern here is Indian farmers’ market access and the reduction of non-tariff barriers. Who knows whether we will now see genetically modified seeds entering and disturbing our ecosystem? Like we did during the Land Acquisition Act, which they were forced to withdraw or the three laws against the farming community, which they had to repeal after sustained agitation, the Congress party will ensure that the government is forced to go back on this.On upcoming election in Kerala | ‘I see no Left party opposing anything that the BJP is doing. They have zero MLAs but want to help the LDF remain in power. It suits the CM that the PM remains. It suits the PM that the CM remains’Liz Mathew: In the first part of the budget session, the proceedings were quite acrimonious, to the extent that the Opposition gave a notice of no-confidence resolution against the Speaker (Om Birla). The government is using this to suggest that the INDIA Bloc is divided. What does the Opposition stand to gain from this?Story continues below this adIn a democracy, it is our right, duty and privilege to ask questions. In this government, no one is giving answers. Everything is so opaque, everything is so centralised. There is no discussion. You ask the commerce minister whether we will buy oil from Russia, he says ask the foreign minister. You ask the foreign minister and he says ask the commerce minister. Parliament is the only place where you can put the government on the dock and ask tough questions. When the government is not willing to answer outside Parliament and when you stop the leader of the Opposition to ask as well, it shows that the intention is to hide behind a facade. During the Manmohan Singh government, the Indo-US nuclear civil deal with the US was opposed tooth and nail by the BJP. When we started the Aadhaar Card, the direct benefit transfer, FDI in retail: BJP opposed. FDI in defence: opposed. The US nuclear deal with India: severely opposed. And today, they are not even doing what the nation expects them to do. We are fully committed to making the government accountable. The Speaker and the government cannot act in a way which muzzles the voice of the Opposition. The issue is not about a technical point of order in the rule book of Parliament procedures but about the intention of the government. The Opposition should be united. We will have to see what happens when the session begins.Liz Mathew: You are overseeing the election in Kerala, a state where the Congress party is flooded with leaders. Who do you think can be projected as a chief ministerial candidate by Congress in a state where the main opponent also has a very strong face as CM?I don’t agree. Why is that strong face giving zero MPs for the LDF in Kerala two terms in a row? Why is that strong face shrouded with so many allegations of corruption and so on? Why is that face not able to win elections in municipalities and panchayats? I don’t think that’s the case. Congress has a very deep talent pool in Kerala. Our leaders in Kerala have been K Karunakaran, Oommen Chandy and AK Antony. But now we have a plethora of leaders who really have the depth, talent and are distinguished. We are fighting as a team within the UDF itself and within the Congress. I think there is a lot of cohesion. We are working purposefully because 10 years is a long time. The LDF has actually, in public mind, become the B-Team of the BJP. We talked about the US trade deal. Why has there not been any sustained opposition? When they were supporting the UPA government, they were talking about India being pro-US and opposing. Today, they are in the Opposition. And I see no Left party opposing anything that the PM or the BJP is doing. In Kerala, BJP has no significant base at all. They have zero MLAs. But they want to help the LDF remain in power. It suits the CM that the PM remains. It suits the PM that the CM remains. So behind the scenes, the Left party is losing credibility as the BJP is doing its best to help the LDF prospects.Harikishan Sharma: There have been two major decisions regarding rural areas: first, the Viksit Bharat-Guarantee for Rozgar and Ajeevika Mission (Gramin) (VB- G RAM G) Act, 2025 which will replace MGNREGA (a key UPA programme), and second, the trade deal’s impact on farming. Although your party announced an elaborate programme to oppose the ‘G RAM G’ law, that protest is not visible. How will you oppose the Indo-US trade deal?Story continues below this adOver the last several years, the Opposition, including our party and allies, has conducted protests, dharnas, and demonstrations within a democratic framework, but these are rarely published in mainstream media. I have personally participated in pad yatras, gheraos, lathicharges, and ‘jail bharo’ movements. Regarding MGNREGA, the law has been significantly diluted. Previously, village Panchayats decided on projects like where to build roads and schools or install hand pumps but now the process is centralised and work can only be done in restricted areas. While it was once demand-driven with an unlimited budget, there is now a cap on spending. Furthermore, the funding structure has shifted. Previously, the Central Government provided 90 per cent of the funds and the State provided 10 per cent but they have now essentially reversed this, forcing states to provide the majority of the money. They cannot abolish the scheme entirely because it is popular, so they are intentionally making it ineffective. It will eventually end. For 11 years, this government has worked to weaken the economic and social status of farmers by weakening the Land Acquisition Bill and introducing ‘three black laws’. They did not waive farmer debt, providing small amounts in accounts while taking more away through other means.The US trade deal will be fatal, specifically because it restricts Bangladesh from buying Indian cotton, forcing them to take it from America instead. This will cause significant damage to the farming of cotton, dry fruits, soybean and corn. Rahul Gandhi recently held a meeting in Bhopal and is to visit Punjab, followed by a programme in Chhattisgarh. We are working with all our strength in every state to ensure the government yields to public demand.On MGNREGA becoming ‘VB -G RAM G’ | ‘The law has been significantly diluted. They cannot abolish the scheme entirely because it is popular, so they are intentionally making it ineffective. It will eventually end’Asad Rehman: Rahul Gandhi held a sustained campaign on ‘Vote Chori’ but this wasn’t raised in the ongoing Parliament session. Is it a strategic decision to put the issue on the back burner? Does the party feel that it was not resonating with the masses?This issue is not a mass issue, it’s political and Mr Gandhi has made it very clear with hard, tangible data and evidence. The Election Commission has failed in its duties to reply to the important questions that he raised. The SIR has gone on in many states and the facts are before us. There are some manipulations going on. The Election Commission should be more transparent and honest. But Mr Gandhi has not gone back on what he’s doing. But as the session went on, the US deal happened. So as the Opposition, you have to bring up the most important,immediate thing. They are all important issues and we are taking them as we can.\Story continues below this adJatin Anand: Since the Indian youth workers’ protest at the AI summit, there seems to be a sustained attempt by the BJP to talk of a split within the INDIA alliance. How do you see the lack of support from your allies?The INDIA alliance is almost equal to the NDA. And BJP, I think, has lost more allies. They have lost Shiromani Akali Dal in Punjab, Shiv Sena in Maharashtra, lost Nitish Kumar and got him back multiple times. So, allies not sticking with the BJP is much more of a reality than the Congress and the other INDIA alliance partners.If protests were comfortable, why would anybody do it? You can have a view on it — you may like it or dislike it but it is one’s right to protest. You see any G20, G8 meeting on climate change, International WTO meets: protests on all these issues happen on the streets. And yes, if you have broken some law, you can arrest. But to detain people, to arrest the Youth Congress president who was not even there. Under what charge are they holding a man in the Indian Congress, who was not present at the site? These are all draconian ways of showing that you cannot protest. The way, the police handled it by threatening allegations of conspiracy. With six t-shirts, what sort of conspiracy against a sovereign country can one do? There may be some difference of opinions, but the INDIA alliance stands strong.Jatin Anand: BJP has often levelled the allegation of dynasticism against Congress as well as you individually. How do you view the appointment of Nitin Nabin, the son of a prominent leader, as the president of the BJP?Story continues below this adPeople have different standards. If someone is competent and acceptable, that person’s heritage should not be seen as a disqualification. But it can’t be a qualification too. But the BJP’s double standards are fully exposed. There are so many BJP leaders whose families are in public life. There are so many allies who have ‘dynastic lineage’. As for the new BJP president, he was selected. I don’t think the election really happens in BJP. I don’t know who decides to nominate, who decides to vote. Mr Mallikarjun Kharge’s family had never been in public life when he started off. So he’s an elected Congress president and Dr Shashi Tharoor fought against him. And all of us voted. I don’t know how many voters or BJP leaders were consulted for the new BJP president. We just heard an announcement.Parul Kulshreshtha: What is the Congress’ view on officials arrested for a scam under the Jal Jeevan Mission (JJM) scheme in Rajasthan?Any corruption must be thoroughly investigated. But with the view of finding facts and punishing the culprits, not with an agenda to tarnish someone. If there is enough evidence, no matter the party, or the individual, one must investigate. But it should be done in a transparent manner. If 98 per cent ED raids are only on Opposition leaders and the conviction rate is 1 per cent, people understand it’s not credible. The law should be equal for everybody.Liz Mathew: How are the discussions in the UDF in Kerala for seat sharing, policy and the manifesto? Would there be a new ally?Story continues below this adOur yatra is going on in Kerala. The discussions on seat sharing and a combined blueprint for the future are happening as we speak. Our allies are absolutely confident, and seat sharing should not be an issue at all. As for the ally, I can’t say as of now. If things work out there are quite a few partners that are ready.Liz Mathew: With so much hate speech against the minorities, what can your party do in the states where it is in power?These things are often said to gain cheap popularity. It is incumbent upon senior leadership to show restraint and lead by example. The Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kiran Rijiju says Mr Gandhi is a “big threat to national security”. Look at the meaning. Immediately, after that one BJP worker makes an online threat to harm Mr Gandhi. There’s an ecosystem that collaborates. The leadership at the top must show dignity. This foul language and threatening language is one thing but it will only happen if the higher ups are allowing it to happen.Jatin Anand: Regarding ‘imposed’ leadership in Rajasthan — a model the BJP followed in other states too — has this caused internal opposition?Story continues below this adIn the BJP, everyone has to silently accept things. But when you push people into positions of power, like the CM’s post, without them having actually duly earned it, or command the kind of political heft that is required to run administrations, the people lose out and policymaking becomes aggressive. Then the bureaucrats become much more important and the legislators don’t support the CM. The policymaking becomes very fragile and ultimately people suffer. The law and order suffers and so does the execution on the ground. So when BJP pushes people who are just picked up and made something, it is probably to have better control from Delhi. That may be the agenda. But the BJP workers and the middle-rung leaders wouldn’t be happy with this imposed leadership because there are many deserving people who may have worked for years and have been overlooked. I’m sure there is a lot of disenchantment but obviously no one will talk about it. But it is a common discussion in the state.